Now before I get to the point, please let me start off by acknowledging that I'm a relative newbie on VS. Like for most, quite some time went by till I actually registered. And even then, I've certainly done a lot more of the Siftin' when compared to submittin'.
However, I'd like to direct your attention (or at least start a debate, because I can't believe I'm the first that's got this situation on the radar) on the, imo, incredible number of music videos that are being sifted as of late.
To try and put it into a perspective, let's look at the facts (=the numbers):
At this moment, 21 music videos, including live versions, are on the first 5 pages on the "Sifted" list (spanning last 24 hours). That's more than a quarter.
Furthermore, 45 music videos have been sifted during the last 72 hours, and that's excluding all Livemusic, parodies (e.g. of Cher), makings of (Rammstein), groovy and Obama girls, etc. (counted from the sifted list in the Music channel alone). Personally, I think that's a lot.
Now, what does that mean? Well, for one, it means that newbies, such as myself, have a harder time sifting a video.
How/why? Who are you to make such a bold claim?
I'll address the second query in a little while, but for starters, the problem for the random newbie videos is they get lost it the masses/get pushed far back in the queue early. Also, if you'll go over some of the recent music videos, you'll notice that it's mostly the Sift veterans of star+ power that are submitting them (feeling comfortable enough to actually submit a music video-I know I don't) as well as giving the initial upvotes (not that there's anything wrong with that on its own, but out of the last 60+ videos in the Music channel, only one was submitted by a no-star member). These (I guess I can just say 'you') are the users that frequent the site the most and also actually take the time to go through the Unsifted list - which is, of course, a good and a necessary thing and you have my gratitude for that. But I seem to have noticed that with music videos, upvoting is somewhat of a gesture of appreciation shared mostly among the star/diamond members. Let me explain with this chain of events:
I am at Gold 100 - I submit a music video of my preference - A couple of other gold/diamond members upvote - Video gets sifted, usually ends up having ~20 votes - A diamond member submits a music video of his preference, etc...
Now, I do hope that some will agree with me on some level. The question is-what is there to be done about it, if anything?
I know it might not be a very popular move, making this claim. It's likely that a lot of people disagree with me (especially because it's mostly gold/diamond members that frequent Sift talk
). And I know it might seem kind of selfish coming from a newbie - asking the more active community members to slow down with submitting music videos - but that's exactly what I think should be done, because I don't believe in enforcing any measures and I certainly don't think personal limits on submitting videos in the Music channel should be imposed.
Extra note: I'm most definitely not overjoyed to start my Sift Talk contribution in this rather dark and dreary manner, but the fact is that.. I care. And if the vast majority will disagree with me, I promise to shut up about this (although I will spam you to death with private profile responses, he he).
However, I'd like to direct your attention (or at least start a debate, because I can't believe I'm the first that's got this situation on the radar) on the, imo, incredible number of music videos that are being sifted as of late.
To try and put it into a perspective, let's look at the facts (=the numbers):
At this moment, 21 music videos, including live versions, are on the first 5 pages on the "Sifted" list (spanning last 24 hours). That's more than a quarter.
Furthermore, 45 music videos have been sifted during the last 72 hours, and that's excluding all Livemusic, parodies (e.g. of Cher), makings of (Rammstein), groovy and Obama girls, etc. (counted from the sifted list in the Music channel alone). Personally, I think that's a lot.
Now, what does that mean? Well, for one, it means that newbies, such as myself, have a harder time sifting a video.
How/why? Who are you to make such a bold claim?
I'll address the second query in a little while, but for starters, the problem for the random newbie videos is they get lost it the masses/get pushed far back in the queue early. Also, if you'll go over some of the recent music videos, you'll notice that it's mostly the Sift veterans of star+ power that are submitting them (feeling comfortable enough to actually submit a music video-I know I don't) as well as giving the initial upvotes (not that there's anything wrong with that on its own, but out of the last 60+ videos in the Music channel, only one was submitted by a no-star member). These (I guess I can just say 'you') are the users that frequent the site the most and also actually take the time to go through the Unsifted list - which is, of course, a good and a necessary thing and you have my gratitude for that. But I seem to have noticed that with music videos, upvoting is somewhat of a gesture of appreciation shared mostly among the star/diamond members. Let me explain with this chain of events:
I am at Gold 100 - I submit a music video of my preference - A couple of other gold/diamond members upvote - Video gets sifted, usually ends up having ~20 votes - A diamond member submits a music video of his preference, etc...
Now, I do hope that some will agree with me on some level. The question is-what is there to be done about it, if anything?
I know it might not be a very popular move, making this claim. It's likely that a lot of people disagree with me (especially because it's mostly gold/diamond members that frequent Sift talk
). And I know it might seem kind of selfish coming from a newbie - asking the more active community members to slow down with submitting music videos - but that's exactly what I think should be done, because I don't believe in enforcing any measures and I certainly don't think personal limits on submitting videos in the Music channel should be imposed.Extra note: I'm most definitely not overjoyed to start my Sift Talk contribution in this rather dark and dreary manner, but the fact is that.. I care. And if the vast majority will disagree with me, I promise to shut up about this (although I will spam you to death with private profile responses, he he).
I think what you're really getting at, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, is that it's hard to get started. Hell, I'm a newbie here having only registered in December after having lurked for about a year. I know when I was a probie it felt like I'd never be able to get anything sifted and the first 10 star points felt like they took an eternity, but once people started getting used to seeing my username and I started making connections with other members my videos tended to do better.
Like Schmawy pointed out to me the other day, on the verge of his Gold-100 every progressive level seems to come faster than the last. That's probably due in some part to familiarity and having your eye drawn to their name/color/star/whatever first, and the comradery between sifters (this is an internet community after all and can be just like other web forums where you have to make a name for yourself before expecting anyone to give a crap about what you have to say). Also because I think people are willing to accept a little mediocre now and again interspersed with the quality from those they are familiar with, but are loathe to accept something crap from a probationary/new member and expect them to make some quality submissions before they'll give anyone a pass on something that's not totally pants-shittingly awesome.
This brings me to a point that I would like to make. Just like the broader story this election season, if you don't like the status quo sometimes you have to rally people together and make a change from the bottom up. According to Dag, VideoSift gets a staggering amount of unique hits per month. Despite that fact, I rarely see probationary or non-star members with an active presence in the unsifted areas of the site. Until they start becoming more active in the community, away from just the front page and top 15, then those areas will be dominated by the stars and diamonds and the cliques and politicking that go along with it. Anyone who wants to get a break into the community will have to push and hope for some quality finds until they establish themselves, just like many social groupings in the real world. It'll happen eventually if you really enjoy the site, its community, and make your contributions.
One thing I will say, and I will probably bring up in a separate SiftTalk post, is that something which may contribute to the difficulty in sifting a new submission is the fact that the Unsifted page defaults to ordering by best-views-to-vote ratio as the default. I know it might seem common sense to some of us that you just change that option, but some people don't know any better. They may not notice the drop-down menu and every time they check out unsifted videos they're only seeing the most immediately popular (which can be dominated by videos from popular sifters). I think making the default sort order "sort by newest queue date" is probably a better way to go so that a video sifted an hour ago doesn't get shoved down a page or two because of videos that get a few immediate votes from friends and close VS comrades.
Anyway, I think you should just relax, hang out, and submit content. Everything else will just sort of happen. Music videos aren't cockblocking you.
While I've definitely learned to not underestimate my own ego, the reason why I decided to create this Talk post wasn't exactly because I'd be experiencing difficulties moving 'up the ladder'. It's seeing some rather good videos in PQueues or even discarded (if I'm not mistaken-I'll admit I sometimes tend to exaggerate things such as plane landings and sniper fire). No, my progress on VS, although slow-mostly due to my own laziness, has been even and almost effortless, at least losing the P was; while I haven't scored higher than 30 votes (yet), both of my videos from last year went out the queue on the day of submitting, and it's actually from seeing comments by other members such as-"I submitted this exact video some time ago and had to discard it after a while, but now I see it in the top15, what a bummer
Certainly, a lot of it comes down to finding a nifty title/tags/description, but there's also been talk on how the actual time of day in the different (OK, two-US and European) time zones affect the results-both that of when you submit a video and when it's published. My theory is that the majority of those unique hits you were referring to come from people that visit the Sift just for a quick glance - and if they don't notice anything interesting (I'll wager interesting=funny for the general public) in a minute or two, they leave. So that's a potential downside of having a lot of music videos on the Sifted list (first page) if we're looking at it from a business-like perspective...
Which I know we aren't. Doh!
But I really like how you made your points in the third fifth paragraph, I agree with those whole-heartedly. For example, I would also suggest that the default sorting method for the Unsifted (sounds like a potential horror title, The Unsifted doesn't it?
Regarding music videos as such - I admit I would actually prefer if there were no music videos (as seen straight from MTV or whatever) on the Sift. Leave musical parodies, leave videos with random content and full songs in soundtrack, leave amateur group talents and live covers, and eveything else musical, I'm only against the 1:1 music videos from 1sttube.
Yes, even though I've upvoted a number of them quite recently and even though I do have my very own (rather broad) musical preferences, AND even though they actually coincide with what most users are submitting (namely, jazz, rock, indie - sorry for the blasphemous generalizations, everyone), I would still opt for VS as the source of humor rather than a copy of YT music video library, sorry for the harsh words. Why not both? I really think that the latter takes away from the former, I really do. But anyone's welcome to disagree-not that I think any capital reforms should be made-I was just asking whether the more shiny members also think the numbers might be a tad too high and if they ought to slow down with the music!
Just a little bit.
Watching music videos here I see ones for bands I don't know as well. That is a matter of what I want to see and vote for when I visit this site.
The funny thing is...you probably don't even know what I'm referring to
I'm one who would rather watch a music video over some other videos. It is simply a matter of personal preference and what I want to do with MY TIME when I am on here.
Watching music videos here I see ones for bands I don't know as well. That is a matter of what I want to see and vote for when I visit this site.
If we stop submitting music videos, what would JAPR submit?
And music videos have a rougher time getting through, because people's tastes vary so much, and even when they do get through, they never garner the sort of numbers that more popular comedy and politics videos do. I find it to be a lot of fun, however, to both share and learn of new bands via music video submissions here on the Sift.
Same with Japr. Same with Critter. Same with Rickegee.